"Jomo Piñata" wrote on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, February 25, 2009:
Somebody [wrote:]
For example those posts connecting suicides to FOF actions are completely lies!!!
….
Blaming the FOF for those suicides is malicious.
Let’s examine the evidence.
Burton publicly announces,
“Do not try to save anybody here who tries to commit suicide. They shouldn’t be here. And they will strangle you just as some drowning people drown someone who tries to save them.” (October 26, 1971).
In other words, if someone is suicidal in the Fellowship, don’t try to help them, if you do try they will drag you down and strangle you.
I can hardly think of a policy which would promote individual suicides more than this one. If they are in the school and they are suicidal, don’t help them.
Then, in 1972, “a special meeting was called and it was announced that a woman who had left the school had committed suicide. This was seen as an example of what happens when students do not value the knowledge they have been exposed to. The school had become a lifetime endeavor! (Only for those who were strong enough to succeed.)” Account of Barbara Bruno Lancaster from the book, Cults and Consequences, at http://tinyurl.com/Lore-Fisher-Smith.
So, to recap:
1. Burton states, if they’re suicidal, don’t help them, they will drag you down and strangle you.
2. A woman (Lore Fisher-Smith) leaves the Fellowship and commits suicide.
3. Burton calls a meeting and states that this is what happens when people don’t value esoteric knowledge, i.e., when they leave the school. Don’t leave the school, it might happen to you. But if you’re suicidal, no one should help you, because you will drag them down and strangle them. If you’re suicidal, you’re on your own.
4. Kevin Kelly, a quadriplegic, has a basically stable life. Burton insists that his prophesies are going to happen and that California is going to fall into the ocean. People are required to quit their jobs and move to Oregon House. Kevin uproots his basically stable but difficult quadriplegic life. The prophesied fall of California does not happen. Kevin kills himself by drowning himself in the river. I am told he was not permitted to have a funeral.
These are two clear examples of the interconnection between Burton’s statements, fellowship policy and suicides. So, Someone, I am interested to know why you believe the suicides are not connected to Burton or the Fellowship.
Others may have more detailed information than I have about Brian Sisler and Kimo Beech. Tell the stories in detail, please.
"Someone" wrote on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, March 1, 2009:
In almost 40 years and thousands of students passing through the FOF, there were three suicide cases. Two of members and one of former member.
Kevin Kelly was speaking of suicide years before he killed himself. I knew him personally since 1984. He once told RB that he wanted to end his life and Robert very actively told him that it is would be the worst crime one can do and that such act will end his evolving possibilities.
Kevin told me all that personally.
Once Kevin asked a question “How can one use one’s teacher as an example?” and Robert said “My dear I use you as an example every day.”
Unlike what is written here, Kevin’s situation was not stable at all and his physical condition was driving him crazy.
The most sharp and out loud statement RB has ever made was against suicide.
The FOF is not for me anymore so I left and I will not be back. Yet, ascribing those three suicides to the FOF is an evil act by a bunch of some liars here.
"Jomo Piñata" wrote on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, March 1, 2009:
Someone [above, wrote:],
Kevin’s situation was not stable at all
Of course it was not stable with all those artificial demands for money and to uproot his life and reestablish it in Oregon House.
In almost 40 years and thousands of students passing through the FOF, there were three suicide cases. Two of members and one of former member.
Let see. I know of four. Lore Fisher-Smith, Brian Sisler, Kevin Kelly, and (according to Bruce) Kimo Beech. But that’s just me, I’ve been out for a quarter of a century. Doubtless there are more. Every time you talk about them, you tell us your conclusion that linking the suicides to the Fellowship is an act of malicious liars. However, I don’t understand your reasoning. Best as I can tell, when you talked about Kevin Kelly, you looked at what Burton said, but ignored what he did:
1. He created an artificial crisis consisting of an impending cataclysm, and demanded that people uproot their lives in anticipation of that artificial crisis.
2. He created insane monetary demands for no reason other than to reproduce the Beverly Hills Country Club in a poor, rural, remote county of the Gold Country.
3. He created a culture of emotional cutoff in which former members were ostracized.
4. He created a culture of narcissistic selfishness in which blindness to others’ emotional needs was the norm.
5. He stigmatized asking for help if one had suicidal thoughts.
I could go on but I think you must get the point. My question for you is, why do you look at what Burton says, but not at what Burton does?
"ton" wrote on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, March 1, 2009:
Someone 223 [above]:
“Kevin Kelly was speaking of suicide years before he killed himself. I knew him personally since 1984. He once told RB that he wanted to end his life and Robert very actively told him that it is would be the worst crime one can do and that such act will end his evolving possibilities…. The most sharp and out loud statement RB has ever made was against suicide.”
around 1981-82 i lived with kevin and did some work for him in exchange for rent at that place he owned just off the property.
speaking of lies, telling kevin ‘very actively’ that CHOOSING to take HIS OWN life ‘would be the worst crime one can do and that such an act will end his evolving possibilities…’ this line of bullshit is yet another example of mind-control and manipulation of the sheep…. it’s the same psychological trick that’s employed in that bullshit about leaving ‘the school’ and ‘going to the moon.’
obviously it was ALWAYS kevin’s OWN CHOICE to end his life, the manipulation, the deceit, and the mindfuck employed in this case ignorines kevin’s unique circumstances and situation. kevin ‘believed’ in the ‘advice’ and ‘advisor’ and so was controled by the same. (suicide as ‘taboo’ has archetypal levels of social conditioning connected to the idea / act… this pablum / hogwash about ‘the worst crime…. ending evolving possibilities…’ is a variation on a meme, embeded [sic]in myriads of social constructs against suicide, this bullshit line by RB reinforces and is reinforced by the taboo nature of the act).
imo, and you can call me a cynic, there is another way of looking at why RB was interested in seeing kevin ‘bravely live on’ (onward christian soldier)… the ‘bottom line’ of kevin’s death implies that he stops making teaching payments and ‘donations.’ my editorial comment on the situation — rather than wisely counseling kevin on the choice to end his own suffering, in order to continue with the fleecing this hasnamus, this spider RB prolonged kevin’s pain-filled existence, god rest his soul.
"dick moron" wrote on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, March 1, 2009:
Here is another example of Burton’s selfish depravity.
In 1978 or 1980 myself and my wife at the time traveled through Europe with Burton, his entourage and other invited FOF members.
Included in the group was Kevin Kelly. At the time Kevin employed an assistant who was crucial to his daily functions, as Kevin was paralyzed from the neck or shoulders down. This was not an easy job.
So here is what kind, caring Bob decided would be best for Kevin. Instead of Kevin’s professional assistant coming on the trip to Europe, Kevin would pay for a cute, young blond, new student, with no training in health care, to travel with him. Not only did Burton save having to pay the costs of his object of desire, he also placed the young man in an uncomfortable and somewhat humiliating position during the trip. One can imagine the mind-games and manipulation Burton used in bargaining with this man for favors. As I recall, some other student was usually helping Kevin when Burton wanted to ply his charm on this guy.
After this trip, the young man moved into the Blake Cottage (Burton’s frat house) for a very short time before he disappeared one night, never to be seen again.
Just recalling this memory sickens me.
"Ames Gilbert" wrote on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, October 10, 2012:
[ed. - Responding to "I in the sky"]
And a little more on the story of Kevin Kelly, who obeyed Burton’s instructions, and then committed suicide when that particular prediction did not come true. As you mention in your casual throwaway line, he was a paraplegic. As a nurse, I took care of him from time to time, and know how helpless he was, and how humiliating some aspects of his life were. For example, every day someone like me had to reach into his rectum with their hand to clear away the accumulated waste because the last section of his intestines were also paralyzed. Hard for the caregiver, much, much harder for him. Nevertheless, it is a testament to his character and will that, despite his many difficulties, he was able to put himself through Yuba college, and eventually find work in the Bay area that gave him dignity and some independence, especially financially. Burton in due course ordered him to give up this unique job opportunity and return to Oregon House to await the catastrophe. When the prediction predictably failed, Kevin was left adrift, all his hard-won independence and way to make a living thrown away on the whim of a psychopath, with no recourse. And of course, no apologies or remorse from Burton. Kevin decided to end his misery in the only way he could. The psychopath Burton then proceeded to tell everyone that Kevin had ‘lost the school’, ‘ and the support of the angels, was not ‘on the Way’. Decades of sacrifice and hard work, cheerfulness in the face of extreme adversity, his love for his fellows, his many acts of generosity and goodwill, all meant nothing. Nothing at all, except as an object lesson for Burton to keep his followers in line. BTW, contrast that to the way he interpreted and treated the suicide of Abraham Goldman, the Fellowship of Friends lawyer . . .
"jomopinata" wrote on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, October 11, 2012:
Kevin Kelly was a quadriplegic, not a paraplegic.
"Ames Gilbert" wrote on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, October 11, 2012:
Jomopinata (#130-59 or thereabouts) [above],
thanks for the correction, you are absolutely right.
Kevin was able to move his head and one little finger on one hand, with a bit of movement from the finger next to it. That movement allowed him to control his wheelchair with a miniature joystick. Perhaps some of you remember him ‘dancing’ with partners at some of the balls; he was very good with the controls. It was an amazing accomplishment to able to find a worthwhile job that gave him dignity, income and some measure of independence . . .
"Fee fi fo fum" wrote on the Fellowship of Friends Discussion blog, October 11, 2012:
47. Ames [above]
Wonderful post. Very humanizing. I fully expect I in the sky to ignore the humanity of what you were describing, regarding Kevin.
You’d once earlier described on this blog the daily ordeal that Kevin Kelly had to endure to complete his evacuation process. When I read that several years ago, I thought, that is very abstract for most people, because they will never have to require someone – as did Kevin – to help them with a bodily function that we know repulses another person to help us with. And most of us will never do what you, and his regular assistants did, which is to physically remove the stools of an adult. (Babies and diapers are another subject!) It is not something anyone would cheerfully volunteer to do, in or out of the Fellowship. Thus of us who have done that for a fellow adult, know that it involves some kind of “ultimate” in terms of acceptance of being human, and dignity.
Speaking of dignity: your mentioning Kevin’s loss of dignity, income and independence, when Robert told him to give up his job, is heartbreaking. Again, like the above paragraph, almost none of us will understand what it means to be so disabled as to find virtually every job opportunity closed to us. To have no income or money is to have few choices. Robert’s reaction to Kevin’s despair and suicide, just like his reaction to Abe’s suicide, was completely dismissive.